“she shall be saved through the child-bearing” (YLT)
February 14, 2008 by Charis
344. But Paul adds very important conditions beyond the mere birth of a Redeemer into the world, with which Christian women must comply before their social redemption will be wrought out, “If they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety” (R. V.). Alas! women did not “continue.” It seems clear that within fifty years after Paul’s utterance, they had largely yielded their faith,¾that they were to be saved on precisely the same conditions as men sinners. They accepted the mischievous teaching that in addition to meeting the conditions laid down for men sinners, they must do penance for the sin of Eve (as though Christ’s atonement had not been sufficient for Eve’s transgression). Faith went; love and loyalty to Jesus Christ and His atonement waned; and finally they accepted a precisely opposite condition to the one laid down by Paul so impressively,¾“with sobriety.” They have now, through the weary generations since, too often bent themselves to the task of winning approval from God, by yielding all their nobler instincts towards pure living within the marriage relation to the sensual “desire” of their husbands, in mistaken obedience to the misinterpretation of Genesis 3:16. The meaning of the Greek word translated “sobriety,” we set forth as “self-restraint” (see par. 327). The word is sophrosune, and 4 Maccabees 1:31 tell us, “sophrosune is the mastery of the lusts.” Several sayings in the Greek classics tell us the same. Paul declares, and we are sure it is the truth of God, this self-control is an essential in woman’s social redemption. Woman can never be matured as a useful instrument in God’s hands, or an efficient servant of His Church, until she comes to understand that “she is not her own; she is bought with a price,” and it is neither her duty nor her privilege to give herself away to any human being,¾in marriage or in any other way. Her bodily appetites are subject to God’s control and cannot be indulged in violation of conscience; any other teaching is but teaching woman how to be a pleasing slave. There is no social redemption for woman until the chain that binds her to the lusts of her own, and of man’s flesh is broken, and she maintains the inviolability of free will, as her sustained attitude towards every human being, including her husband. There is no method of moral improvement remaining, after the loss of a free will. To attempt to accept any means or method of salvation from sin different from or beyond the simple act of accepting Christ’s atonement for sin,¾be that act “circumcision,” which Paul so strongly denounced, or woman’s service in the lusts of the flesh, is to accept a condition in which “Christ shall profit you nothing,” “Christ has become of no effect unto you” (Galatians 5:2-3).
345. …” Luther, who established for the Protestant Church the truism: “It is a great error to seek ourselves to satisfy God’s justice for our sins, for God ever pardons them freely by an inestimable grace,” never paused to think that as to women this is true also. To the present day, the women of the Protestant Church are taught by Bible commentators to keep to penance (seek to satisfy God’s justice) for Eve’s sin by silence in the Church and obedience to man.
I found Free Indeed-Click Here an enlightening exegesis of 1 Tim 2:12
PAUL’S WORDS TO TIMOTHY EXPLAINED As a woman, I resonate very deeply with Paragraph 344 from this lesson in Katharine Bushnell’s book and I understand “the childbirth” (I Tim 2:15) to be the formation of Christ in me (parallel passage Gal 4:19)
As far as personal application of the passage: I have found 1 Tim 2 speaks to the porn problem which is extremely disruptive to the intimacy in a marriage:
–>for the the husband - “lift up HOLY hands in prayer without anger…” vs. 2:8
–>for the wife
-to LEARN- steep herself in GOD and HIS WORD, I Tim 2:11
-not to treat her husband in an “authentein” way, attempts to armtwist him are futile and counterproductive, I Tim 2:12
-to dress modestly, (1 Tim 2:9)
-to continue being a help MEET to her husband with “faith, love and holiness with propriety”. I Tim 2:15
-Christ will be formed in her- “the childbirth” and her garden intimacy with the Lord will be restored (I Tim 2:15)-
in that sense- REVERSING the FALL (of 1 Tim 2:14)
It is a promise, a passage of HOPE, HEALING, DELIVERANCE, and RESTORATION!
It isn’t intended to club women into silence.
(NOTE: cross posted here)
[...] (NOTE: cross posted here) [...]
Katherine does a wonderful job encouraging women where true liberation begins!! But, referring to “childbearing” in this passage as Christ being formed in a person, would have to apply to both male and female. This interpretation is extremely problematic. You would have to believe you were giving birth to Christ. Christ’s atonement is sufficient for Eve’s transgression without an added emphasis of childbearing for women. I was reading an article somewhere that said that scholars disagree about the meaning of the word “authenteo”. Some scholars believed the word during Paul’s writing, meant sexual seduction and activity that was very immoral. I believe Paul is countering the false teachings in Ephesus, but the reference to Eve’s sin only reveals that this is Paul speaking and not the Spirit of Christ.
To me, Bushnell’’s unswerving commitment to the authority of Scripture is refreshing and one of her great strengths (cf link). I believe that Paul’s writing is God inspired/”God breathed” in the original autographs.
You observed “the childbirthing” as “Christ being formed in you” must apply to men too, which I see in Gal 4:19- a similar teaching by Paul. I understand such “birthing Christ” as referring to sanctification in both 1 Tim 2:15 and Gal 4:19. Sanctification is a process additional to “salvation”. One can remain a carnal Christian wandering around the wilderness, removed from Garden intimacy or one can submit to the process of sanctification: the crucifixion of the flesh, the circumcision ot the heart, the formation of Christ within… and enter the promised Land and “Garden intimacy” with the Lord.
Click Here is a link to a thorough scholarly paper on “authentein” (from LCMS). The behavior- whatever it is- is clearly over the top, out of bounds kind of behavior. “exercise authority over” is not an accurate translation.
Hi Charis
There is a difference between a person “being born of God” , “growing in Christ” and a person “giving birth to Christ”. It is not possible for any of us to give birth to Christ. The wording in the NKJV gives the impression to me that Paul is speaking of Eve in v14 and as he continues in v15 says “she” will be saved in childbearing…..
Paul doesn’t state that she was saved…., (though God covered both Adam and Eve) Eve was not living at the writing of Paul, but the passage is worded “will be” as if her salvation is still pending.
A couple of other problems are that the name “Eve” is no longer referring to Adam’s wife, but to all women, and the other is the word “childbearing”.
v14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression vs15 nevertheless “SHE will be saved in childbearing if THEY continue….
We can be “born” of God, come to Him as a “child”, and grow in Him, but referring to Christ as a “child” that you give birth to is not what Paul is referring to here imo.
Would Paul tell men to give birth to Christ in order to be saved? Christ refers to Himself as “Living Water” “Bread of Life” etc but He does not say “you must give birth to Me to be saved”
We are to bear witness to Christ and teach all things He commanded. I believe Paul was 1 of many witnesses, but not everything he wrote was God breathed. Men who lived 300 years after Christ ascension are not the authority of what is inspired of God, Christ is.
…I will take a look at the link in your comment. Thanks.
HI rejoiceinHim (love that handle BTW
)
Nor is Paul pregnant yet he says this in Gal 4:19 “My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you“. And Paul’s use of “Eve” as representative of in not unique to 1 Timothy. He says “For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity[a] that is in Christ.” 2 Cor 11:2-3
I think that is because the “she” refers to “Eve” as representative of “everywoman” who is living under the consequences of Eve’s action. And the “saved” is not Christian salvation but restoration. Click here for Blue Letter Bible lexicon definition of- “she shall be saved” It can’t be salvation through Jesus because it is conditional upon the actions of whoever “they” are. “IF THEY continue in ….”
Some of the meanings of saved are - made well, healed, restored
She shall be saved(made well, healed, restored- future) if they continue in fidelity, holiness, love
I love Paul’s writings. They are very rich and deep- treasures to me- and I would be impoverished if I assumed them uninspired. I believe that God was active in the process of preserving what He wanted as part of His Word.
As far as the passage in question goes, here are a couple ways of taking the message which are consistent with God’s loving character and HIS honor and respect for HIS daughters:
1. Think about church history-
The passage can be taken as a prophetic proclamation about the church… that some day woman will be saved/restored/made whole in a reversal of the fall’s consequences (”he shall rule over you”). She will be restored to her status as a co-heir with Christ, restored to her queenly, ruling position BESIDE Adam rather than being the mistress/subordinate/underling to Adam’s “master-hood”
2. Think about marriage-
I personally was guilty of “husband idolatry”. I put him on the throne and I was an obedient servant, while he micromanaged and controlled down to trivial detail. My desire was for my husband (to please him, to satisfy him) and he ruled over me. The passage can be taken as a PROMISE for the marriage of ANY CHRISTIAN WOMAN- that she will be saved/restored/made whole in a reversal of the fall’s consequences She can be restored through “the child-bearing”!
–>restored to her position beside Adam in dominion over creation per Genesis 1:26-28
–>restored to her inheritance as a joint heir with Christ
–>restored to intimacy with the LORD which was severed by Eve when she left the Garden.
Notice “if THEY continue in faithfulness…” (1 Tim 2:15) This interpretation would speak quite firmly and with HOPE to the Christian woman contemplating divorce from a husband who is sinning against her in various ways.
I don’t take the “sozo” in that passage as “salvation”. I understand “the child birth” as sanctification. Would Paul talk about “circumcision” as part of the sanctification process for all (men and women)?
Rom 2:28-29 “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.”
See also my comment above where I quote Paul calling men (equally with women) a “chaste virgin betrothed to one husband.”
Paul uses a lot of descriptive metaphors.
Charis,
(Divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life - Charis is a great name!)
I believe Paul was figuratively speaking of the labor of teaching them the truth of Christ in Gal 4:19 and that would be different than “birthing Christ”. Gal 4:19 “my little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you” would be referring to the Galatians being birthed, not Christ. My understanding is that Gal 4:19 and 1 Tim 2:15 have different meanings.
Even though my sisters in Christ (whom I highly respect) believe Paul is referring to women false teachers in Ephesus, I don’t see evidence from Paul’s writings that that is what he is addressing, but I do listen to their observations and have learned a lot from them. From my studies I see that Paul is telling Timothy to tell those who teach, (the Gentile believers) to teach no other doctrine (than that of Christ), dont give heed to fables and endless genealogies. Some had strayed desiring to be teachers of the law. There is no mention in this letter that women were teaching in this gathering “Eve was superior”, though that is a possibility. I am sure being in that culture the leaders had to deal with and confront those mindsets.
I’m having fun discussing this with you, rejoiceinhim. Thanks
No takers IRL for thinking deeply about such details…
If you have about 10 minutes, this is a very good exegesis and word study of 1 Timothy 2:11-12:
Free Indeed- click here
He makes the connection between the word “authentein” and “authorship” saying that there was an Ephesian goddess cult which claimed women came first and “authored”/created men… This fit together with some information I found about the Etymology of the word “authority” (link) That the words “authentein”, “authority”, and “author” are connected makes sense to me- they share a root.
“I labor in birth until Christ be formed in you“- Paul to the Galations
I had assumed that “the childbirth” in 1 Tim 2 referred to Christ being formed in herself and the “restoration” is of garden intimacy with the LORD. Your observation raises another possibility. Suppose the passage refers to her travail/pain in a difficult marriage until Christ is formed in her husband? … whereupon they can experience garden of Eden intimacy with each other?
I would like to think that… but it is hard to think that too… because “expectations are premeditated resentments” and I have experienced such disappointment, hurt, loneliness in our version of “Christian marriage”… I don’t want to cultivate false hope that things really could be different, that I could be respected as a “co-heir”, valued and appreciated as “bone of my bone” and “help MEET”… as Adam must have felt toward Eve prior to the Fall (see link).
The latter possibility “fits” with the conditionality of the fulfllment of 1 Tim 2:15 upon the actions of “they“…
“she shall be restored in the childbirth if they continue in faith, love, holiness, with sobriety”. This possibility gives a whole nother dimension to the wifely calling of “help MEET” making her quite instrumental in her husband’s sanctification via her travail on his behalf.
I think any woman who allows Jesus to be formed in her and “continues in…” is restored to the garden state of intimacy with the LORD (as Eve enjoyed before the transgression). I know that by experience, I FEEL intimate with my LORD. And I HOPE that draws my “Adam” back toward the garden- for intimacy with the Lord, and with his “eve”- as Bushnell poses had Eve not followed Adam out…
[...] had assumed that “the childbirth” in 1 Tim 2:15- ““she shall be saved through the child-bearing” (YLT) referred to Christ being formed in herself and the “restoration” is of garden intimacy with the [...]
Hello Charis. May the Lord abundantly bless you. I stop by from time to time to read an excerpt from Bushnell’s book (my copy is on the way via snail mail - it’s 1 of my favorites).
I’m going to read a few comments over @ WIM, but I wanted to stop by and say howdy